Quote from Intrepid :

I doubt S3 will be £12...

And I doubt there will be S3

The title of the topic could change to "Is LFS in the limbo?" because, dead it is since iRacing came out. The question now is if is still between this world and the other side, with a minimum chance to relive... sad

Quote from BoneCrusher :

I don't find it frustrating that the new update takes longer as expected, complex things take time (to the devs: maybe you should accept the help some of us (tallented programmers) offered and get things in higher gear....).
But I DO find it frustrating the devs treath us like we are some low life idiots by not giving some kind of progress report, leaving us in the dark. Sure the devs don't HAVE to do anything, but I'll think they owe that to the community. Because without the community there won't be LFS.

Scawen made in 3 years (the first 3) much more than the last 4, so I dont agree that "complex things take time", because it doesnt match with the LFS historygram

Quote from Bob Smith :

I don't see what there is to talk about at all? We know that work, as ever, continues on LFS. Every version is better than the last. At some point, it will get better again. All there is to do, is enjoy racing in LFS, or one of a million other things in life.

I know, you are a robot. Scawen has programmed you to combine some sentences and that is why you always repeat the same old things no matter the topic is.

Once you are not human, I must to understand you dont get tired of camper in the Scavier walls to protect against moans intruders.

Tell us your secret. Are you a robot or not?

Quote from xtraction :

...................1674 posts later, i would of thought this conversation would of been over. its done when its done. Im sure your happy with LFS the way it is if your still on here and playing. The less you moan, the less the devs have to post and the more time they have to complete the update.

simple

and you are here too saying the same old things: the game what it is, time doesnt matter, dont like get out, and etc.

So, if you realize, you are not different from what you criticize.

BTW, is Scawen alive?

Quote from MijnWraak :

I betcha if CTRA magically came back, they would be full and everyone would stop bitching about cruising. Guarantee it. Just because pick-up racing isn't 'in', and cruising IS 'in', doesn't mean that cruising is destroying LFS.

it is not destroying LFS, LFS is destroyed.

You can buy G25 for much less than that. There are right places...

I bought at Americanas.com many time ago for R$1.200,00, but I know many that payed around R$800,00, but it is still a big price for many people.

Quote from Velociround :

...

and you call me a troll... kid kid,

I have my opinion formed: mouse sux, period. see you around

Quote from Calvinaquino :

Ops! There goes the realism!

Not the simulation, but the immersion. I don't know, and I don't want to know, but I guess iRacing gives not the same "help" to "ps3-controller" drivers, so them will be not confortable with it, different from LFS, and that is the focus of the thread. Read again the first post please.

A good mouse control is a good programming feature, no discussion. But is it good for the simulation idea, that is the focus of the game? I dont think so.

Don't you have a wheel?

Actualy it doesn't matter for me if there is or not mouse support, once I have play no more LFS for months.

Once I ask Scawen for host option to define the controllers permited. That would be a form to avoid mouse racers in a specific championship.

As said, that is just MY opinion, and LFS will change nothing due that.

Anyway, I won't change my point of view. I think that realistic simulation has nothing with the type of controler you use, but it is all about the simulation itself. What I can't stand is how is possible to call it a real drive experience using mouse, keyboard or any other kind of controller but wheel.

I used to play with kb and joystick for years before start using a wheel. My first wheel was a yellow logitech. My second was a momo, and my third and still in use is a g25.

Not everybody can buy a wheel, or even is interested in buy one just to test some game. I don't think it is crime to support mouse and kb.

But at least it could have some option to set servers. Anyway iRacing has no other option but wheel, and it has its public, without kb&mouse requests, what proves that it is possible to close the options and still build a great community around the game.

LFS community grew up around its features and it should not be changed. The fact that I don't agree with something, doesn't mean that I want to change it.

Last edited by Speed Soro, Tue, 8 Sep 2009 16:34.

Quote from Velociround :

What about we make a deal?
You give up LFS, go away from this forum since you hate everything so much and then give me your steering wheel because you won't play LFS anymore, so you'll sleep well knowing there's one less mouse user in the world, I'll be happy to play with a wheel and everyone else will be happy too!

I don't hate everything, in fact I don't hate anything from LFS. I just hate people like that cannot keep the discussion in the thread trails. You, as always...

Quote from Calvinaquino :

So in a motorcycle sim (like GP Bikes) who can afford, drive with a 360 controller. That means it's not a sim? or realistic? BAN THE CONTROLLER USERS! i would like to see a small and realistic bike controller.

LFS is not perfect. Crash physics, the tire physics. and some other things.
Well i guess if you're looking for the perfect simulator, well why don't just buy a car and go drive somewhere? there aren't mouse drivers there. Some people drive with mouse not because they like, but because the can't afford/use a wheel at that time. You can bet that soon enough ill buy my DFP, and yes i'd rather drive LFS with a wheel than with a mouse...
Whell, why don't you create your own sim racing game and do better? Ban the mouse users!
Hell why do i even bother, you're just another annoying person.

I got a car, I go kart some times, and I play other sims. We are discussing mouse or not here, and my opinion is simple: not. A real good and serious sim (like announced in the first mainly page on www.lfs.net) shouldn't permit mouse steering, gas and brake.

Lets think those who cant drive with wheels, lets think those who are blind too? And retarded, and...

Forget, this forum, as always, is fully of fanboys of everything, saying that everything in LFS is great, has a reason to be as it is and etc.

Android, no I dont give up LFS just because mouse drivers, that was ONE reason between many others, many, many others.

maybe i have wrote wrong, doesnt matter, but with mouse, trackball, joystick, how realistic is it?

No LFS doesnt feel like NFS, it is just taking the NFS format.
This discussion, about mouse or not, is old, and we had some similar in LFSBR 3 years ago.
My opinion in that age (when I was a LFS fan) was the same that now: mouse is bs and should be banned from the game. That is not simulation, there is no car (not cars in the level LFS intend to simulate) driven by mouse...
I totally agree with the author of this thread: mouse is too easy to control for those who give a time to train it. Once they reach a condition they have many advantages over wheel racers, starting with less fatigue and fast countersteering.

Try to visualize a lan house with 10 players "driving" LFS, 5 with cockpits, with G25 and triplehead, and 5 with laptops, with touchpad... fantastic. That is what happens in the internet, and that is so ridiculous.

Last edited by Speed Soro, Mon, 7 Sep 2009 17:52.

That is ONE thing between many others I gave up LFS long months ago.

Mouse, cruise, drift, keyboard, ESC to pit, infinite restarts... does it fell like Live or Need for Speed?

Wanna sim? Go iracing. Bye.

Quote from Napalm Candy :

I don't have a good english, and I don't understand what you want to say, any can to explain me please? I have iRacing and I can to make a video, I have interest on physics comparations

Please, do this test:

Get in the track, any track, in a straight, with Skip Barber.

Reach a speed like 80 kph, then brake hard, so the front wheels will lock up.

As soon as you brake, turn the steering wheel to one side, any side. Do it to the full course.

The front wheels will turn to the same side.

Observe when the car stops, or when it is almost stopped, that the front wheels turn a little bit more.

In LFS you can do the same thing, but the wheels will not turn anything more after the car stops.

Did you understand? If someone with good English could explain better...


Talvez voce entenda portugues melhor: pegue o skip barber, numa reta qualquer, e alcançe uma velocidade em torno de 80 kph e então freie forte. Assim que começar a freiar vire o volante totalmente para um lado e espere até o carro quase parar ou parar por completo. Então repare que as rodas da frente vão virar um pouquinho mais, como se ainda houvesse curso para isso. No LFS isso não acontece. As rodas atingem o fim de curso e quando você para elas não se mexem.

Quote from Shotglass :

just do what he said and check your controller options... at least evo will offer you something to turn speed sensitive steering off

I'll try it, but a question is, is this kind of effect something possible in the real car? What is the purpose of this, I mean, I know what it does, but why to give a help to the driver that does not exist in the real car? Or does it exist?

Quote from Sueycide_FD :

did you make sure each setup had the same brake pressure?

The cars are different, the speed are any, the brake pressure have no effects on this.
I fully steer the steering wheel, and the wheels, after speed decrease almost to zero, turn a little bit, as if it had a rest of course to complety.

Quote from GP4Flo :

I'd like to see a comparison video.

Sorry, I'll not make a video, cause I dond't know how to do it (I don't have FRAPS, and I don't intent to install), but if you have EVO, you can the same test.

Quote from tiagolapa :

Check for speed sensitivity steering. ISI engine uses this value, it must be 0.
Iracing i dont know. If this is true with iracing then its very bad

I don't think this is about control lag or something. It is about IMO:

- Camber/Caster changing after suspension returns to its natural position (what could be right).
- Grip recovery (what would be wrong, I guess)

Please, try a test with some of these both games (iR or EVO) and you'll see.

One thing that I was thinking is about camber e caster changing due movement of suspesion.

I still think that iRacing and EVO are wrong, but I have no sure. I know that LFS really calculates the all interation between suspension arms and wheels, and in fact it can be observed online. So I tend to trust more in LFS than the others.

I think there are here most experimented drivers (real and simdrivers) that could help to analize better this thing.

I know that are other threads comparing LFS and other simulators, but this is one to compare LFS against iRacing and EVo in one thing that I noticed today.

I think other have noticed it before, but I hadn't.

It would be better to have a video to show the glitch, but I think it will be possible to explain just with words.

The scenario:

Take a open wheel car in all 3 games.

LFS: FOX
iR: Skip
EVO: F3

So, get in the track in a straight and reach a reasonable speed, something like 80 km/h.

Then press full brake to lock the front wheels, and turn a full course your steering wheel to any side, and pay attention to the front wheels.

You'll see that in iRacing and EVO the front wheels don't turn completly, but it will turn slowly while them recover the grip, due the decreasing of the speed.

In LFS the wheels turn all the course them should turn (because you have a bar conecting your steering wheel to the wheels, of course).

The fact is: iR and EVO are WRONG!

I think they calculate the recovering of the grip, and them point the wheels to the right direction, the direction that the car should be moving when recovering the grip due the decreasing of the speed.

Sorry the English errors. If you didn't understand what I'm saying I'll try to explain again.

I repeat that I think that many people here has already noticed it, but I have never realized.

Last edited by Speed Soro, Sun, 12 Apr 2009 15:52. Reason : some gramatical corrections

iRacing side views are not so good as LFS, but now it has spotter that works fine.
I don't like to use TrackIR, and I do not know if I would get used to it someday if I insist.

Quote from G!NhO :

Well i was on a drift server and someone said the word "gripping".

I told him it isn't the correct term for racing, it's just a term used by drifters for racing. But he said it was a word and blablabla, and that "Gripping is the term for Motor racing that has grip as the the main factor". Bollocks IMO.

I looked it up in an online english dictionary and it wasn't in it.

So who is right, me or the dorifto boyz?


I searched and didn't want to bump a 4 year old thread. :P

And who gives a penny for what a drifter thinks?

I think the best solution is 3head, but it demands much more power from your vga. A 42" flat screen maybe permits a higher fov. Does anyone could post a picture?